Speaker 1: 0:03

Hi, this is George with the Crotchety Old man podcast. Hopefully you've enjoyed listening to the Crotchety Old man as much as we've enjoyed making each episode. If so, send us some feedback. We'd love to hear from you at thecrotchetyoldmanpodcastatgmailcom. Let us know what you enjoy about the show, what you'd like to hear more of. We'd love to receive your feedback. Remember that's thecrotchetyoldmanpodcastatgmailcom. As we always say, if you didn't know, nah, you know.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Peace. Well, hello again and welcome to another episode of the Crotchety Old man podcast. I'm Gary Smith, one of the co-hosts, and in the studio with me today is our host, george Cromley. Top of the day to you, george.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Top of the day to you, smitty man. I'm so happy to be back. We missed a couple of weeks because of some technical issues, but we're back and we're ready to go. We got a special guest today Melvin Buchanis Been on once before and we talked about a few things, but today, you know, it's interesting, people have different, interesting backgrounds and Melvin's no different.

Speaker 1: 1:22

He's somewhat of a sports enthusiast and has been on a couple of local radio shows and talking about different parts of sports, and we know everybody loves sports. But today we thought we'd get him on and talk about NIL name, image and likeness. This seems to be taking the sports world by storm. I guess what I'll say, as a lot of athletes out there was reading an article today. It was Shakur Sanders, the son of Deion Sanders made about $4.6 million on the NIL circuit and the little and Brony James has made about 6.6 million. So there's a lot of athletes out there making a lot of money using their name, image and likeness. So we thought this would be a great subject to talk about today. So hey, without further ado, melvin, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3: 2:14

Thank you. Thank you, glad to be here. You know we've talked about a few things before, but I think you picked a great subject today and a subject that needs to get out and a subject that needs to be further explained to the public or to our community, so I applaud you for doing that.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Go ahead. That's a great place to start. So please, for our audience, explain and tell us about NIL.

Speaker 3: 2:47

You know, with the name, image and likeness is what NIL basically stands for, and you know it's been somewhat of a controversial issue and I don't think it should be controversial at all. When you look at the TV contracts that these conferences are receiving and the kind of money that they are bringing in, then in my opinion, it's criminal to deny these student athletes from earning any money. Yet they are the generators or the driving force behind all of it. I think as parents, especially in our community, we have to stop looking at sports as sports. Quote unquote Big time sports is actually entertainment and entertainers get paid and what our sons and daughters and nieces and nephews are doing is they are entertaining millions, producing millions and billions in dollars, but receiving nothing, so to speak.

Speaker 3: 4:12

They're receiving pats on the back and all of this and telling them you're getting a free education, but I don't see anything being free. When you get me up at 4.30 in the morning telling me how far I've got to run, how many reps of a certain amount of weight, what my diet can be, what my classes, what classes I can take, what classes I can't take, then big time college sports actually becomes a job, especially what it becomes. So if that is the case, then as parents and family members, we have to look at it that way and make sure that those athletes receive some type of return or remuneration for their work and their services, because those families have invested mightily in a lot of those athletes, whether it's AAU, whether it's seven on seven camps. So in my opinion, they deserve a return on that investment.

Speaker 1: 5:16

So let's ask the obvious question Do you think this is going to help or hurt sports?

Speaker 3: 5:23

Well, I can't really say right now. I actually think it's going to help sports, because one thing I think NIL did it made everybody come clean Because folks had been lying for years basically saying it wasn't about the money but it was. And you have coaches. When NIL first came into being you had coaches saying this is going to mess up everything. We need guardrails on this. A kid doesn't know how to handle that kind of money. And on and on and on. But you never heard the coaches say we need some guardrails on our salaries. You never heard them say we need some guardrails on how much the TV contracts can be from these big networks and, if I must just put it, the hay where the horse can get it.

Speaker 3: 6:30

The people who mainly complain about NIL if you will go back and check it they were basically in the South. You didn't hear the Big 10 do a whole lot of complaining about it. You didn't hear the Pac-12 do a whole lot of complaining about it In the ACC basically only one or two over there. But in the Southeast there was a lot of complaining about it.

Speaker 2: 6:54

What are you supposed to do, Melvin? What are you supposed to do?

Speaker 3: 6:58

I think it's this way. See, we have to remember this. The better athletes in this country, especially for football and basketball, look like you and I, the bulk of them do Not all of them, but the bulk of them. So if we allow NIL, that's, allowing little black boys and girls to get money we don't think they deserve, or more money than we think they should have. So we got a problem with NIL. But it's funny. You're too young to make this type of money. Yet in other sports where other ethnicities dominate, you go right out of high school into that sport, whether it's professional baseball, and you start making money at 18 or 19. Golf, tennis you start making money at 18 or 19. But for some reason, for football it's wrong for them to make money.

Speaker 3: 8:05

I mean, we just saw a case and I'm proud of what Jimbo Fisher got. If his lawyers were good enough to work him up a contract like that, I'm fine with that. But just a few years ago we wanted to how would I put it? Criminalize James Winston for a plate of crab legs. Think about that. We wanted to criminalize him, or the young man that was at Ohio State I can't think of his name now, he was a quarterback and they basically suspended him because he sold his jersey. He didn't sell anybody else's jersey, he sold his jersey. That would be like me wanting to sell this red shirt I'm wearing. If it's on my shirt, I ought to be able to sell it. Who ever offered me the most for it?

Speaker 1: 9:01

You know, I hear what you're saying, but I guess from my point of view, this doesn't change the NCAA's stance on paying athletes the monies that you talked about earlier, the gate money and things of that nature. Ncaa is not sharing that with the athletes. So the athletes are still yeah, they're using their name, image and likeness from McDonald's and Burger King and all of these places, but it still doesn't change the NCAA's stance on how they feel about compensating athletes. So when you made the statement that you see it primarily in the South, I don't understand why or what that has to do with anything, because the way, like I said, the way it's stated sports and from an NCAA perspective has not changed. This money is not coming from the NCAA.

Speaker 3: 10:07

I would agree partially with what you're saying, but what I'm saying is this I think the main thing is that everybody is actually ducking and that is the fact that major Power Five, d1 football and sports and so forth Actually it's what we don't wanna call it, which is it's actually a minor league for the pros is basically what it is. But I think they have really worked to what I'm saying. That is not the way it is structured, but if you look at it literally, that is what it is, and I think everybody has tried to keep it from becoming that.

Speaker 3: 10:54

But that's actually what it actually has become and I think that is one of the reasons. You've noticed that a lot of the other leagues and football and so forth that tried to start they never really got off of the ground and I think that was by design and not by accident, because I think had they gotten off the ground some of those athletes that we see play every weekend wouldn't be playing in college. They would go on to that other league and I think the colleges know that would hurt our draw If the stars started avoiding the college path and going that path and right at the amount of league and going right on into the pros.

Speaker 1: 11:41

So I think- yeah, let's stay right here. Okay, so I can. Only I did some research so I can only speak on where it is right now and, from what I can see, it's not really impacting athletes' lifestyle from a perspective to change a lot of anything. Because I'm looking at what I'm reading. It says that average athlete receives anywhere between 1000 and 10,000. We talked about Sanders and we talked about James early.

Speaker 1: 12:15

I just threw that out there just to kind of, you know, get your attention and say, okay, I'm on audience. So if they started to listen to this, they may want to listen to all of it, but they're not the average athlete and they're not. They're basically outside the norm. Okay, but from an average athlete perspective, they're not making a lot of money.

Speaker 1: 12:34

I'm not saying what's going to happen five to 10 years from now, but, interesting enough, I was just also reading where Georgia High School Association just voted I think it's 65 to 10 on October 2nd to allow athletes in Georgia to take advantage of the same rules that those are in college. So, with that said, I mean, how is this going to change sports? Is this something that's really impactful enough to say from an athlete perspective? I can make enough money on NIL that I don't have to do what I mean? Does this take a or just enhance my lifestyle so that, as I am in college, I can, like you say, I don't have to go and steal crab legs, I can have money for pizza and things like that? So I mean, let's really put this where this actually is, so that in mainstream America understands what has actually happened here.

Speaker 3: 13:37

Right. Well, here's the first thing. I think NIL actually put the wedge and to start opening the door that really needs to be open because ultimately I feel, with the counter billions that these conferences and so forth are bringing in from the TV contracts and so forth, ultimately I feel that there should be some revenue sharing. It just makes sense With the counter money these student athletes are generating. And I guess what I'm saying when you understand it from the standpoint of it actually being entertainment whether you wanna look at it that way or not, that's what it is Then, if your son or daughter is a good singer, they can start making money right out of the gate, but they're not going to go, so to speak.

Speaker 3: 14:36

Michael Jackson, a person with Michael Jackson's talent, is not gonna just go sing in a free choir and not get paid for it, so to speak, If the whole world knows that that person has that kind of talent and that the world is demanding to hear. What I'm saying is that we know that audiences are demanding to see these student athletes play, Is they're not demanding to see the coach walk on the field or the band, they're demanding to see these athletes play. And my thing is we have to understand. We're in a capitalistic country and the market actually drives everything. Some people say it's too high. I don't know. But what I'm saying? I think, like any market, ultimately there will be some correction. But I do not feel that if I have the talent to demand a certain type of I won't say salary, but a certain type of benefit from my talent, then I don't think I should necessarily be denied payment for that talent, Because it's no different than if somebody else has some other type of talent that they're getting paid for.

Speaker 2: 16:06

My question, melvin, becomes this what does it do for education purposes? All right, I'm not seeing the incentive for a student to finish school. Heck, if I can go to school, I'm an athlete. I'm thinking about football players. I mean, whether you on the bench or you to star quarterback, you still should get paid because they're coming to see the team, not just the leader. So how do you pay the guidance on the bench number one?

Speaker 3: 16:37

Well, I think, okay, go ahead. I think you got back to a point that I spoke about earlier. I think that's where, ultimately, the revenue sharing comes into play. I think, ultimately, as NIL matures out, attorneys and agents and so forth will figure out how to get the other athletes paid too. We both know that the third string guy is not gonna be paid what the first string guy or the star is gonna be paid. I mean, that's a given, but I think there will be. It's enough money in the pot that they're generating for all of them to get something.

Speaker 2: 17:26

Let me go to this question then Where's the incentive for a student to graduate? What good is it getting a degree if I'm gonna, if you're gonna make this money If you get you getting your money? I mean most, most folks, most of those, go to college to get a degree so they can come out and get a job to make money. But, heck right, already get paid. You know, you, like the Shakura guy, whoever heck else is out there, already those, your star guy, they get millions. Everybody's not gonna get millions. But you know my family don't have nothing. Like you said, they don't invest it. All this a a you stuff. Well, had some crumbs is better than nothing. So they'll make except a hundred thousand dollars, two hundred fifty thousand. Think they got a Lot of money and drop out of school or don't complete. What is that gonna do to, especially black folk?

Speaker 3: 18:11

Well, I look at that to two ways. Many I I think it actually could help. You know, and here's what I'm saying, most of those kids who are athletes. We are fed this line that you come here, go to college, we'll get you in the pros, we'll get you into the pros to do what makes the money. What I am saying is that if you can make the money prior to the pros, make the money when the money shows up, because we don't ever know in life where our money is gonna show up, so I think we need to take advantage of it when it shows up now. Here's how I think it actually could help education. If I'm getting X amount of funding, then I don't really have a lot of pressure on me to go to the pro, because what I was wanting to do for mama when I get to the pros, I can actually do some of that for mama now because I have some funding prior to that. All right, and what it also does it for a lot of student athletes. I think it will cause them to stay in school longer, which means, instead of trying to get to that third year in football where I'm actually draft eligible, that is not as important now because I'm getting money. I'll stay on and complete all of my years because I'm getting money anyway. I think you saw a little of that with Angel Reese when she said she'd make more money at LSU than she would in the WNBA. So I think you're gonna see some of that the student state because they're doing fairly well, or where they are the.

Speaker 3: 20:10

The other thing that I always tell is that I think we have to Take a different approach as parents and aunts and uncles and I hear you loud and clear on that Educational piece. I mean I hear you loud and clear. I mean my other eight siblings, you know I hear you on that we all have that. What I am saying is this, and I tell students this I Said if God gave you the ability To make money or to prosper from this talent, a gift, then you need to do that. Now you need to also Get your lesson. But if the opportunity comes where it comes before you actually get your degree, you can come back later and get your degree, but at 40 you can't come back and play football Because there's only a certain window that that particular talent, so to speak, will pay you for.

Speaker 3: 21:16

And so I tell them to take advantage of all of the windows.

Speaker 1: 21:21

I Get that and we've kind of talked about it from that Perspective but I guess from for me, from a coaching perspective. I mean, especially when you start talking about at the high school level You've got kids that have not developed yet. And when you talk about those kids that you know a way down on the bench, you know they're not gonna get that in I L money but you may have one that may be somebody, the son of so-and-so, that shows them. You know that they were able to play at this level. They, a lot of kids play up and they may be the one that you know get some in I L money.

Speaker 1: 22:00

But what does that do for the team concept and what does that do for the you know Volunteer coaches and coaches that are coaching at the high school level that are making no more than you know what teachers make. They get a difference, a little bit of a stifling for teaching kids but trying to develop. But the whole thing is the teams Concept and having so everybody on the same Playing level to develop that team, develop that player to move on to the next level. But if you're talking about these kids getting this money early on in life yet to take advantage, because this is a capitalist anxiety. I don't know if that's helping through me. To me it's hurting a sport because you're not giving kids an opportunity to develop as a team. You're. You're creating more individuals that are out to get paid Okay, regardless of who has to sacrifice for it. That that's just the way I'm seeing it from a coach's perspective not to be the coaching team.

Speaker 3: 22:59

Now, to be totally honest, I don't necessarily disagree with you on that. What I am saying is that we're in a new day and we're going to have to make some adjustments and we're going to have to look at things different from how we have looked at them in the past. That's the main thing I'm saying. And even from the team concept and people will say, well, this kid gets this and this kid, I said, but it's actually that way in life I said, if you are a better computer programmer than 90% of the other, you're going to make more money. And that's just the way it is. I mean, if you're a better singer than the other singers, you're going to make more money. And even in the pros, all of the Kansas City Chief players don't make what my homes make. There's a division in anything you're in based upon your ability to perform that particular task or perform in that particular arena. And what I'm saying is basically sports is no different.

Speaker 3: 24:16

We'll be right back.

Speaker 2: 24:20

Hi, this is Gary Smith of the Crotchety Old Men Podcast. Are you looking for ways to create generational wealth on a passive income basis? Then reach out and grab a copy of my new book Five Keys to Creating Passive Income with Commercial Real Estate. It's available now at Amazoncom. Again, that's the Five Keys to Creating Passive Income with Commercial Real Estate.

Speaker 3: 24:58

It's no different. Now I do think, going forward to your point, I do think everybody is going to get Better at this the parents, the students, the coaches, the school administrators, because sometimes I'll hear people say, well, he's 18 or he's 19 and he can't handle that kind of money. I see you, but God gave 18 and 19 year olds something called parents or a parent. If they are single family, they gave them parents. So I think that's where that comes in at is that if our entire community looks at this different, then they will understand more of how we need to make sure that, when this particular capital comes in, that it is actually managed right, because this job may not have that opportunity again in his lifetime.

Speaker 1: 26:02

I guess I look at it from a different perspective and you hit on it earlier. As far as talking about the amount of money coaches are paid in college and the amount of money they bring in from the gate and concessions and endorsements and names on the side of the building and things like that, I guess I look at it like I mean somebody talked about this earlier If you're in high school and you get a scholarship to play basketball, that does not necessarily mean you get a full ride. There are more partial scholarships than there are full ride scholarships and there are a lot of kids that go to college to play basketball on academic scholarships. I think a better way to approach this so that it's more equitable across the board is these colleges should pay for these kids education as Opposed to putting money in their bank account. Okay, if we're making X number of money at the gate to see these kids perform, there should be more scholarships across the board, full-ride scholarships across the board to that would benefit these kids as opposed to putting money in their bank account.

Speaker 1: 27:16

Now, the NIA up to me to me Personally is more of a pacifier and it's those that can Can and those that can't can't and the reason I say that is because, like I said here again, if I'm a Shakira Sanders, I'm gonna make some money because of who my dad is and you know things that have occurred in my life. But if I'm George crumbly, chance's a me getting the McDonald's commercial, chance are me getting my name slapped on the side of a bus. To make a thousand dollars here to you know, during high school or college are slim Okay. So it's Bob being in the right place at the right time. So I think that in I L helps some, but it doesn't help all, and that's why I say you know, the average Gallery is between a thousand and ten thousand, which is not a lot of money. That's not money that's gonna change your life.

Speaker 3: 28:05

I Agree with you that everybody, like I said again, it's not gonna get the same thing, but I think what in our L is actually doing is it is is it is making people more aware of how much money that is actually there. I think it's making people more more aware and I don't mean the in our L money, I actually mean the other money that I was talking about from the TV.

Speaker 1: 28:37

But other money is always been and I think the NIL money is just a pacifier because of the fact that, hey, we see the NCAA still sitting back and saying, hey, we got our money, we ain't giving you no money and don't ask for no money. Okay, we're gonna give you this in I L you and if you can get an I L contract, go ahead and do it. But as far as this NCAA money, we're gonna still pay these coaches millions of dollars. We're gonna still put all this money, and you know, in the school or wherever they put it border directors, whatever, whatever. Like I said, it don't. It's not changing anything to me.

Speaker 3: 29:08

Well, I don't think it has changed now, but I think that now that people are actually looking at it, I think people are going to demand look, these, these, these athletes are producing all this money. We got to do a better job of getting them somewhere and I think it will be done. It's probably gonna take some time, but I think I think in our L is making people look at it, because before him we weren't even looking at how much money was generated. We just said, hey, if I can get my son or daughter scholarship and get them, you know, get his education or whatever paid for, then you know, I'm good with that because he can take that education and go. Do you know what he, she, needs to do?

Speaker 3: 29:54

But I don't think the public was really looking at it, or even we're aware of just how much money it was. They would hear a little about it, but it was sort in the back burner. But now you know, in the background. But now it's pushed up front and I think everybody is looking at all of the money, not just the NIL money, I guess, is what I'm saying. I think people now are more aware of all of the money. It's like we, we gotta do we? We gotta create a more equitable Situation for the, the people that are actually driving the whole bus, which which are these student athletes.

Speaker 1: 30:35

Yeah, no, I don't disagree with you and that that perspective. As far as who's driving the bus, I think, like I said, I think we're missing the boat because I think it's always been in the background. Who's making the money? You know, you can look at the salaries and you can look at the situation where you've got these kids. You know, if you ever saw the fab five Documentary, they talked about how they had no money. You know they couldn't. You know they've wearing these shorts ain't nobody. You know Everybody's copying what they're doing. They ain't making no money off of it. But to me I could say that's more of a, a pacifier that says, okay, it's gonna get you to look, take your eye off the ball. Which is the real money, which is what in CAA is making. Now they can say, like I said, if you're a student, you can go out and hustle yourself and sell your likeness, your image, your name and you can make some money. But as far as the NC, double a money you ain't getting none of that and that.

Speaker 1: 31:30

To me that's the way it's been and I Don't see anything coming on the forefront to change that. You know, hey, man, appreciate you coming on and finish All right, a great conversation. I mean, this is, this is the kind of stuff that we need to stimulate some conversation out here and, you know, get people thinking about it, because I don't think a lot of people are looking at that. I think they're looking at NIL is in, see it, and CAA is finally, you know, getting off their stupor and giving some kids some money, and that's not the case. That's true. That is true. So many you got anything else for the conversation?

Speaker 2: 32:07

well, one thing I can say this has been a very interesting one, and I Can, I guess, to the educational part of it. The only reason people go get educated anyways come out and make more money. So if you can make money before you get educated, guess why not? You can always come back and get a degree and get a job at Walmart. So so, anyway, as we move forward, you know I got to have a quote for today as we end this session. So my quote is this Creative activity is learning, a process where the teacher and the pupil are located in the same individual. I think it's pretty appropriate for today.

Speaker 1: 32:53

What definitely is.

Speaker 2: 32:55

So you know how we like to say on the crotch of the old men podcast. If you didn't know.

Speaker 1: 33:00

Hey, no, you know, amen, thanks for coming on. You be blessed. Audience, we're blessed. We'll talk to you soon. Peace we out.

Speaker 4: 33:10

This is dr Paul Clements with a crotch of the old men Podcast. If you're interested in financial tools to build wealth and you're interested in ways to maximize your health holistic alternatives Then you are just the audience that we're looking for. Tune in each week, every Thursday, to the crotch of the old men Podcast, where George crumbly, gary Smith and I Offer you in-depth discussions on health and wealth. Subscribe to the crotch of the old men podcast on Google, spotify, apple, I heart radio or wherever you get your favorite podcast.